Motorglider licensing FAQ (frequently asked questions).
Motorglider and pilot requirements defined (PDF document that complements the FAQ)
Need training or endorsements?
Please contact someone on the list below to discuss your situation.
If you know or find someone who is NOT on the list below, please have them contact me so I can add them to the list (and if someone on the list doesn't do it anymore, I'd like to know that, too). Thanks!
Eric Greenwell (509-578-8707) or email me)
These instructors will travel to other locations - please see their announcement in the state listed here:
Rae (Bud) Williams (Alabama)
Phil Abrams (Arizona)
Russ Hustead (Arizona)
SKY SAILING™, INC (California)
Michael Freed (California)
Dieter Bibbig (Colorado)
Shawn Knickerbocker (Florida)
Dave McConeghey (Kansas)
Joe Dobronski (Missouri)
Stuart Lieber (Minnesota)
Robert J. Mudd (New Mexico)
Davey Amos (North Carolina
Grant Smith (Washington)
Some will also ferry aircraft.
Rae (Bud) Williams
Pegasus Aviation Services, LLC
Elmore (Montgomery), AL
CFI Glider (Self-Launch, Aero-Tow & Ground-Launch)
CFI Airplane, Instrument & Multiengine
ATP (ASMELS), CSIP (Avidyne & Perspective)
Motorglider training and self-launch endorsements per AC 61-94 available, will travel to your location.
Grob 109B 28:1, 2-place touring motorglider
$100/hr includes instructor.
I provide flight training at all levels, to include Self-launch & tail wheel endorsements, flight instruction and aircraft ferrying. Typical self-launch endorsement syllabus is 3-5 flight hours, depending on background and experience, plus ground training.
Come to my location or I will fly my motorglider anywhere in the USA to you for training ($100/hr) or travel to you to train you in your self-launch glider for low daily rate and expenses.
I am also an A&P/IA and provide A&P and inspection services.
Location: Elmore, AL
Phone: 334-294-2833 - cell
Email:
Phil Abrams
CFI-G CFII ATP
Tucson, AZ, or will travel to your location for self-launch endorsements, intro rides, etc.
Grob 109B 28:1, 2-place self-launching sailplane
$125/hr includes instructor.
Location: KTUS, Tucson, AZ
Phone: (520) 222-6084
eMail:
website: www.soaringflight.com
Russ Hustead
Sky King Soaring LLC
Motorglider training and endorsements.
Aircraft: Katana Xtreme (expert), Pipistrel, or your Stemme S-10 or Super Ximango
Location: Payson, AZ
Phone: 602 622-2257 cell
Cell: 602-622-2257
Email:
Web Site: www.skykingsoaring.com
Williams Soaring
Training and motorglider endorsements in an ASH-32Mi, .
Call Williams Soaring at: 530-473-5600
Or email:
Website: https://www.williamssoaring.com/index.html
Location:
Williams Soaring
2668 Husted Road
Williams, CA 95987-5105
Oliver Dyer-Bennet
DG-USA
Training in a DG-505M, a high performance 50:1, 2-place self-launching sailplane. MG training & endorsements from a CFI/CFIG.
DG-505M $125 hr.
Instructor $50 hr.
3 hr. minimum per day.
Location: Sonoma Sky Park, CA & Minden, NV.
Phone: (707)942-5727, fax: (707)942-0885
e-mail:
Jeffery Hazlegrove
Motorglider training and endorsements
Location: Windsor, CA
Phone: 707-838-8901
e-mail:
John Fulton
CFIG/MG
Location: Berkeley, CA
Phone: 510-666-9076
Bud Schurmeier
CFIG/MG, Stemme S10-VT
Location: Fallbrook, CA
Phone: 760-941-3703
e-mail:
SKY SAILING™, INC
Let Your Heart Soar! We have a Stemme S10-VT to do motorglider endorsements on a regular basis. We have year-round soaring, open 7 days a week 9 to 5. Garret Willat is available to go to other places.
Location: 31930 Hwy 79, Warner Springs CA 92086
Phone: (760) 782-0404 fax 782-9251
email: see the website for the address (spam avoidance is the reason)
website: www.skysailing.com
Rolf Peterson - see Nevada listing
Sport Pilot Examiner
Motorglider training and endorsements by Jon Thornburgh. Two Lambada UMF-13 and a Samba XXL motorgliders are available.
Location: Torrance Airport, Torrance, CA
Phone: 800-971-8710
email:
Website: www.SportPilotExaminer.com
Robert M. Riter
I do glider training in a HB-23. CFI-G.
Location: Torrance, CA
Riter Aviation
phone: (310) 614-0759
email:
Web Site: riteraviation.com
Jennifer Foreman
I do glider training in your glider; currently, I have experience in the Diamond HK-36 series, Pipistrel and Stemme.
Location: Petaluma, CA
Aeroventure
Phone: (707) 778-6767
email: tsongololo at twiggybird.com
Web Site: www.aeroventure.com
CFIG - glider training and motorglider endorsements in a Pipistrel Sinus. Will travel. I am also an A&P
Location: Los Angeles ca
Phone: (818) 800-1771
email:
Phil Ecklund
CFIG/MG
Location: Boulder, CO
Phone: 303-449-4300
Alfonso Ossorio
I am a CFI and DPE with a Motor glider endorsement.
Location: Boulder, CO
Phone: 303-665-4499
email:
Jer Eberhard
Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD
Grob-109, Ximango and Stemme S10-VT training and endorsements in
customer's aircraft. Mountain and ridge soaring and flying. Steamboat
Springs and Salida, Colorado are favorites.
FAA Safety Team member.
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Phone: 970-231-6325
email:
website: http://www.jerslash.net
Roland Martin
I am offering motorglider instructions and rental of a Super-Ximango AMT-200
New Garden (N57) airport in south-east Pennsylvania, near Wilmington, Delaware.
Phone: 610-444-1266
web site: http://sailplanesandmore.com
Shawn Knickerbocker (6/2006)
Motorglider training available, will travel to your location. Touring motorglider training course on request to include the AMT-200 and 300, VA-17, Katana series, L-13 SEH. G-109, etc...
Annual & recurrent training available also. FAA DPE in motorgliders, can issue self-launch certificate (FAA) at the PVT/COMM level and self-launch endorsements as per A/C 61-94. Can help set up training programs also.
Phone: 904.269.5861 (Florida) cell: 904.382.9614
e-mail:
Roger Buchanan
May be able to give training and endorsements in your motorglider.
Location: Winter Haven, FL
Phone 863-307-4396
email:
Jerry Owens
No current contact information. If you know his situation, please have him contact
Eugene Zakharenkov
No current contact information. If you know his situation, please have him contact
Rand Vollmer (Contact information current as of 3/13/2023)
CFIG; LSRM A, WS, PP, and Glider
Services available: Self-Launch Glider Training, new pilots, add a rating, and BFRs. All training conducted in your Pipistrel Virus or Sinus Gliders - or call to confirm availability of Rand's Glider.
Location: Zephyrhills (Tampa) Florida - Will travel
Phone: (813) 774-2127
Email:
Tom Muller
Motorglider training and endorsements in a Ximango AMT 200.
Location: Thomasville, GA
Phone: 229.221.4018 FAX 229.551.0984
email:
Jeff Jobe - See Washington listing
Glenn Vitucci
I give self-launching endorsements in my 2016 Distar Sundancer, and CFI-G renewals.
Location: Driggs, ID (KDIJ)
Phone: 208 313 6134 cell
Email:
Website: www.SpitzerRealty.com
Skill Aviation
Flight training in your motorglider. CFI-G: Roderick Read 847-970-0113
2346 West Beach Road
Waukegan, IL 60087-1530
Phone: 847-599-9955
Web site: http://www.skillaviation.com
Please contact me if you know of any motorglider instructors in Indiana
Eric Greenwell -
Dave McConeghey (contact info valid as of 2/20/2023)
Motorglider Instruction and Delivery; 2 examiners available.
Experience in: RF4D, RF5B, Vivat, Grob 109, 109B, Taifun 17E, Scheibe Falke SF25C, SF28, Pipistrel Virus, SW, Sinus, Ximango, Lambada U13, Phoenix U15, Schweizer SGM-2-37, Dimona HK36, Brasov IS-28M2
Phoenix U15 Light Sport Available for Instruction and Rental.
Location: KAAO in Wichita, Kansas
Cell Phone: 316-409-9624
Email:
Sandhill Soaring Club
Club owned Scheibe SF25C. Club membership is required, several qualified instructors available.
Location: Trenton, MI
Phone info line: 734 761 1132
e-mail:
Website: www.sandhillsoaring.org
Mailing address: PO Box 2021 Ann Arbor, MI 48106
Mark Grant
CFI Instrument, Airplane & Glider (Self-Launch, Aero-Tow & Ground-Launch)
Experienced in Taifun 17E, Scheibe SF25C, Stemme S-10V, Ximango AMT 200, Schweizer SGM 2-37/TG-7A, Samba XXL, Pipistrel Virus 912 and Hobbyliner HB23/2400.
Self-launch & tail wheel endorsements, flight instruction and aircraft ferrying.
Location: Detroit Metropolitan Area
Phone: 248-788-4040
Email:
Steve Fischer
CFII, MEI, CFIG aerotow, ground, self-launch, seaplane, helicopter, DPE
Location: Minneapolis
Phone:
email:
Stuart Lieber
CFI-G; Self Launch, Aerotow, ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI, MSP FAAST Rep/Wings Pro
SAFEpilots.org - Board Member
Location: Stanton (Twin Cities), Minnesota or will travel to your location for self-launch endorsements/training
Motorglider Training and Endorsements in our Grob 109B
Cell/Txt: 952-232-5045
Email:
John A. Teipen, MCFI
CFI: ASEL, AMEL, ASES, Gliders (aero-tow and self launch).
DPE: ASEL / Gliders (aero-tow and self-launch) – CFI Initial / Renewal / Reinstatement, Commercial, Private, Sport Pilot , and Instrument (ASEL)
Location: FAA Central Region / Greater St Louis
Phone: 314-863-5941
John Hartley
Motorglider training and endorsements in a DG 500M
Location: Bozeman, MT
Phone: 406-586-2482
e-mail:
Robert J. Mudd
CFI-G&A I do not however have a two seat MG available to me now. I can travel to the new owner's location. Usually the insurance company requires about 10 hours of dual so normally about 5 days would be needed to cover flying and maintenance issues. I have experience in HK-36/Diamond Katana Extreme, DG-800, Pipistrel, Apis, Sinus,Virus and Taurus.
A&P Rotax 912/914 certificated mechanic
Location: Moriarty, New Mexico
Ph 505 269-8234
George Wiederkehr
2009 Barrett Rd.
Ballston Spa, NY 12020
Phone: 518.884.8169
E-mail:
Andrew Wood
ATP, CFII, MEI, CFIG aerotow, ground, self-launch
Location: Minden NV
email:
Jim Lee
CFI/CFIG: Available on a limited schedule for self-launch endorsements, glider training and flight reviews using the Phoenix S-LSA glider. Can also provide flight reviews or checkouts in your own glider or airplane.
Location: Minden, NV (MEV)
phone: 352-250-5644
fax:
email:
Rolf Peterson
I provide motor glider training in my Grob G109B and give motor glider self-launch endorsements.
I have given training and endorsements in a DG 500M, but no longer have it available to me to give dual flight instruction in retractable engine self-launch glider operations and emergency procedures.
I can give ground instruction in retractable engine system operation and emergency procedures.
Training Locations:
Byron Airport, Byron, CA
Air Sailing Gliderport, Reno, NV
Phone: 925-447-5620 or 925-447-4255 Cell: 925-784-0344
Email:
Tupper Robinson
Motorglider training and endorsements in DG 500M
Location: Minden, NV
Phone: 775-782-4944
or contact:
High Country Soaring
Phone (775) 782-4944, fax (775) 782-4348
e-mail:
website: www.greatbasin.com/~hcsoaring/index1.htm
Mike Moore
CFIG/MG
Location: Minden, NV
Phone: 775-782-1224
e-mail:
Motorglider tours Las Vegas
Fly in a Grob 109 motorglilder. Beginner to Advanced mountain, ridge,and thermal flying (up to 18,000ft in summer), and you can build time for your commercial license airplane. Dual instruction only.
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Phone: (702) 290-3892
email:
website: www.motorglidertourslasvegas.com/index.html
Oliver Dyer-Bennet - see listing for California
Davey Amos
Will travel and provide flight training and Self-Launch endorsements in your aircraft. Specializing in Pipistrel and Diamond Aircraft plus have time in Phoenix and Ximango Motorgliders.
Location: Salisbury, NC (will travel - contact for details)
Phone: (704) 507-7945 to arrange your training
e-mail:
Gary Garavaglia
I can train for self launch endorsements. I am also a glider examiner DPE in NC. I can also travel for expenses. Pilot certificate number 2045275.
Location: 43NC Bahnson Gliderport in Farmington, NC.
Phone: 704.340.8924 to arrange your training
e-mail:
Sporty's Academy
Motorglider for training and rental in a Diamond Xtreme (HK-36-TC), with several self-launch CFIG's on staff and 2 glider DPE's (one full-time, one part-time).
Location: Batavia, OH (Clermont County/Sporty's Airport)
Phone: 513.735.9500
e-mail:
website: http://sportysacademy.com/
Robert Brock
I have endorsed over 40 glider pilots for self launch and taken 8 totally through the private pilot glider program in motorgliders only. I can help you, too! You must supply the motorglider, as I currently do not have access to a two-place motorglider. Please contact me to discuss arrangements for endorsements or flight training.
Location: Beaverton, OR
Phone: 503-888- 1600
email:
King Povenmire
CFIG/MG
Location: Veneta OR
Phone: 543-935-6449
Mark Stroble
CFIG/MG
Location: OR
Phone: 541-895-5984
Tom Knauff
Ridge Soaring Gliderport
CFIG/MG We have a Duo Discus T and I believe a used SF28A is on the way.
Location: Julian, PA
Phone: (814) 355 2483, fax: (814) 355 2633
Email:
Steve Dee
I provide flight training at all levels, and Self-Launch endorsements. My Pipistrel Taurus Self Launch Sailplane is equipped with the new ClearNav audio vario and ClearNav, and goes for $180 per hour, dual. Typical endorsement syllabus is 3-5 flight hours, depending on background and experience, plus ground training.
Ground training/cockpit checkouts available for ASH-26e, as well as other self-launch and touring motorgliders. I have experience in the Phoenix U15, Grob 109B, Ximango AMT-200, Katana Extreme, Taifun, Pipistrel Sinus and Virus, and Vivat motorgliders, plus Grob 103SL, DG-400, ASH-26e, Taurus, Ventus 2CM, ASH-25Mi, and Nimbus 3DM Self-Launchers. I'm willing to travel throughout the USA to come to your location for expenses.
Recommended by Marfa Soaring and DG USA-East; call or write for list of satisfied customers. ATP, CFIG/MG, FAA Designated Examiner, SSA Life Member since 1967.
Location: Memphis, TN (will travel - contact for details)
Phone: (901) 652-8270 (cell) to arrange your training
e-mail:
Pilot's Choice Aviation
Motor glider training, endorsements, and rental in a Grob 109.
Location: Georgetown, TX.
phone: 512-869-1759
e-mail:
Burt Compton
Motorglider and glider training year-round in west Texas.
Location: Marfa (MRF), Texas
Phone: 800-667-9464
e-mail:
Website: www.flygliders.com
Jean-Pierre C. Ducos
CFI-G/MG SSAI: Two G109, one for instruction and demos, the other for solo and rentals. Endorsement package for Glider pilots: $575.00 2 hours ground inst. and 4 hours flight inst. G109 rental including fuel: $75.00/hour. Hill Country located, soar year round. Open Wednesday to Sunday.
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Phone: 210-667-3716
email:
website: www.learn2soar.net
John Fodemaier
Motorglider training and endorsements
Location: San Antonio, TX
Phone: 210-493-5635, fax 210-493-3633
e-mail:
Ed Shilen
Motorglider training and endorsements
Location: Gun Barrel City, TX
Phone: 903-887-9702
e-mail:
George Vaeth
Motorglider training and endorsements in a Grob 109A
Location: Dallas, TX
Phone: 214-350-1681
e-mail:
Carol Walker
Motorglider instructor and FAA designated pilot examiner
Location: Dallas/Fort Worth Metroplex
Phone: (972)-475-4320
e-mail:
Beth Jenkins
Location: Georgetown, TX
Phone: 512-869-1759
Fred Blair
CFIG/MG instruction in Diamond Xtreme HK36TTC
Location: Caddo Mills, TX (7F3) North of Dallas
Phone: 214-616-4727
e-mail:
Dave White
CFI/CFIG Available 7 days a week, by appointment, for Self Launch Endorsement, Glider Training, and Flight Reviews using the Pipistrel Flex S-LSA Glider. Can also provide Flight Reviews or Checkouts in your Glider or Airplane.
Location: Boerne Stage Airfield- Boerne (5C1), Texas
Phone: (830) 388-0120 (leave message)
Email:
Robbie Elves
Motorglider/tailwheel endorsements, BFR - Katana Xtreme - self-launch certificate (FAR 61.31(j)) and self-launch training in accordance with FAA Advisory Circular AC 61-94. FAA examiner locally available for pilot certification in the Katana Xtreme.
ATP/Commercial Glider, FAA "Gold Seal" Instructor
Location: Richmond VA.
Phone: 804-274-1559 Work, 804-740-5760 Home
e-mail:
Jeff Jobe
Motorglider training and endorsements
Glider, Single and Multi Airplane, Rotorcraft Helicopter Certified Flight Instructor
Locations: Seattle, WA and Lewiston, ID
Phone: 206 389 1241
e-mail:
Ad Astra Aviation
CFIG/MG
Location: Wenatchee, WA
Phone: 509-670-5194
Skip Gregoire
CFIG/MG
Location: Ephrata, WA
Phone: 509-754-5773
e-mail:
Angus McKinnon
CFIG/MG Instruction in a Grob 109A and endorsements.
Location: Bellingham, WA
Phone: 360.671.9605 Fax 360.671.9605
email:
Grant Smith
I will travel for training in your aircraft or a Grob 109A, which is available for insruction at Pacific Aerosport 50 miles north of Seattle. Instrument training is also available in the Grob or in your aircraft.
Location: Renton, WA
Phone: 425 271-7464
e-mail:
Website: http://cfi4u.sitesled.com
Ronald Kinoschi
No current contact information. If you know his situation, please have him contact
The following applies primarily to high performance, self-launching sailplanes, not the more airplane-like touring motorgliders such as Grob 109, Taifun,Phoenix, etc., that have much different characteristics.
h3>Motorgliders = Opportunity
I've learned some things since getting my motorglider.. One of the most interesting things is how people that aren't motorglider pilots have a very limited concept of what a motorglider can provide.
Everyone understands a few things, most of all what I call "towplane avoidance". The ability to self-launch gives you the opportunity to launch when you are ready, thereby avoiding the wait for the towplane and the delay caused by all those other people in front of you. This part everybody envies.
Secondly, everyone easily grasps the idea of "retrieve avoidance", using the motor to avoid landing away from home, whether it's another airport, or even farmer's field. Most people like this idea, though some don't, believing the chance of landing out is what defines the sport.
Indeed, self-launch and self-retrieve are important , but these abilities don't really allow a change in the way you soar, but just allow you to do it more conveniently or more often. After all, a typical weekend flyer at their favorite gliderport has little trouble getting a tow, avoiding a landout, or getting a friend or towplane to retrieve them once or twice a year.
Not so obvious is that a motorglider allows you to enhance your soaring. This is what is really important to me. Most glider pilots don't realize how much their self-imposed constraints limit their soaring. The biggest constraint is probably the desire to soar home, instead of getting retrieve from that airport or field. Once you realize you no longer have to soar home to get home, your soaring opportunities increase immensely. Here are some examples:
1) I stay hours longer in the great soaring in the mountains, while the plain gliders scoot for home before the thermals die in the basin.
2) I fly in low cloudbase, marginal, but exhilarating conditions when no one else will bother launching, because the lift is too unpredictable.
3) Sometimes I fly like it's a record attempt, speed ring way up and ruthlessly rejecting all but the very best thermals. Great practice, and the palms still get sweaty!
4) The soaring dying between me and home? I keep going towards the still good air knowing I can motor home if I need to.
5) Miss the wave on the first try? Instead of dashing back to the airport, I try another place, and another, until I get it right.
Let me expand on two of these situations from last summer.
One day in Ionia, Michigan, the cu started early, but only to a two thousand feet AGL base. None of the locals launched when I did, preferring to wait for the bases to rise. The lift was less than a knot, but there seemed to be no sink, and every cloud worked. Gently dolphining from one puffy cumulus to the next, I stayed between 1500' and 2000' (AGL) as I covered about 70 miles in the first two hours. How different from our usual flying! I flew a four hour, 150 mile cross-country in these odd conditions, and never required the motor. Without the it, I would have flown locally, but not gone cross-country. The locals never did fly because the bases didn't rise until too late in the day.
In mid-April, happy cumulus clouds over Hermiston encouraged me to head south. The other pilots went north, fearing the Hermiston basin would, as usual, die by mid-afternoon, cutting off their return to Richland. I was certain they were right, but with my ticket home nestled behind the wing, I went past Heppner then pushed well into the mountains. The bases rose, the lift increased, streets appeared, and best of all, I was flying in new territory. What a rush! Late in the day, I turned back with John Day, Oregon, in sight. The clouds ended before Pendleton, Hermiston was a pit, but with slow, careful climbs (and 50:1 glides), I inched my way across Hermiston and the Columbia River. Once again I managed to get home without the motor.
Sometimes I do have to use the motor to get home. Most of the time, I discover there is more lift out there than we realize. Because a retrieve or landout is so inconvenient, most glider pilots play it safe by heading back early, or by not going there in the first place. We take pride in getting back, and don't think of all the soaring we missed. Why else is the first question I often asked after my flight is "Did you use the motor?", instead of "How was the soaring?"
It astounds me that many glider pilots, even some motorglider pilots, consider it a "failure" if the motor is used after the launch. A record attempt will fail if the motor is used, but not a recreational flight. Most of my post-launch motor use is anticipated hours before it happens: I frequently, consciously, make soaring decisions that will almost surely require the motor to return home. Why? So I can do more and better soaring! Read the examples again, and consider this: would you make different soaring decisions if every airport, duster strip, and yes, even every cut hayfield, had a towplane and pilot, eagerly waiting to tow you home for a five bucks?
I sure have.
The joys and pleasures of owning a motorglider, and how you might be able to afford one.
If you already own a glider, then YOU may already be able to afford a self-launching, high performance motorglider! Let me show you how, in 2018 costs.
The first thing to realize is the motor is about a $30,000-$60,000 premium over a "regular" glider, whether you are buying a used one or a new one. There are other costs, plus some avoided costs, like tows. Here's an example of about what the net yearly cost might be for an active pilot living in Seattle, WA, in 2008, but doing most of his soaring a 150 mile drive away in Ephrata, WA, where the weather is drier and the clouds are higher:
Added costs:
$2000 interest cost (or interest not earned) on the $40K motor purchase @ 5%
$200 for the additional cost due to the motor during the annual inspection
$600 insurance on the motor value
$200 fuel and oil for 50 "launches" and three self-retrieves
$3000 Total additional costs
Avoided costs:
$1650 30 regular tows at $55/tow (Ephrata)
$375 5 tows at $75/tow at "Big Bucks Soaring" in Nevada
$360 3 aero-retrieves at $120 each
$100 2 car retrieves plus dinner for crew
$2485 Total avoided costs
Net additional cost: $3000 - $2485= $515
As you already guessed, using a motorglider exactly as you used your unpowered glider is more costly, though you are spared the aggravation of the line-up for tows and the occasional retrieve.
The Auxiliary Powered Sailplane Association (ASA) is pleased announce plans for the 2025 Parowan Soaring Camp in Utah. But first, please note the following details:
1) We have limited space at Parowan so we extend invitations instead asking for entry applications. Previous year participants get first choice to be offered an invitation, and once we have an initial headcount we invite from a waiting list. The process will be started in February, including updating the waiting list. Please contact Dan Rihn (
2) The 2025 ASA Parowan Soaring Camp is a "Self Launch" only camp; "Self Launch" capability is required. The ASA enjoyed the presence of the towed gliders and pilots for many years, and initially, there were sustainer-style motorgliders the needed towing, too. But, when a ramp revision cut the number of tiedowns from 40+ to about 22, there was no longer room for our friends that require a tow. The increasing difficulty of securing a towplane and towpilot compounded the problem.
Flying dates are Tuesday June 17th thru Monday June June 30th
The Camp Fee will be $200 for each pilot;
Key Dates (Updated on Feb 2, 2025)
We already have a wait list building so please be honest about your plans for 2025 when 7DR sends out the inquiry
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